Well. Today natural underground of radio show and podcast dedicated today and natural food industry. I'm your host L springer. Join me in the studio today had dynamic. Do blow. What are you guys. Energy. He's got a little premium high on our dues and high priced no at all. That is accurate account of how this particular Kevin Mason showed today they say three's a crowd. No sir not today we have three introducing guests that we ever had three people now own. This and you don't know them now but it's good because that Nellie panic cancels out where so negative they're so positive it's like I'm now there's three of us and that's never works on the current. And. But it passes or threes like that that are near crowded there is a crowd is studio all of tumor calling in so I don't know what my point is that could affect how big is the other person had. Marty gave me over the weekend rest of the weekend they can't hit it all right our first guess after the break we'll be a founder of pro it's protein chips say that three times fast. Throats of protein chips that you guys are proteins seekers and you're looking for other ways to snack. This is these are good I am nervous because every time I think about the spring and I wanna say it was there Scottish accent. Brooks eat chuckle seeing shop pro I think that's a good idea for them blinking Diana kill my each up pool hall and coming young man in oh yeah. Yeah sort of fitness you know I would like role if you see Jeff pull the old snack on the as a regular sheet. Yeah it'll all around the Euro and I rented an eastern European and it dropped them a little. This you know he pulled Connecticut and a bit later in the show we're. A visibly James monster very creative industry insiders were done a number of brands built a number of brands. We're gonna ask him all kinds of things about the speaking approached the evolution of snacking and being it's an act differently in the in America than. We used to let it go through that whole thing in our third segment. With sixteen to watch is you know over the years it's gone from sort of tasty too convenient tell locale low car low fat low fat we got in a portion control. The idea I mean I you know are we are we actually getting over the hump where were snacking with purpose now where there's more. Functional snacking deep you know instead of eating the last of something hey we took. More of this out. What are the good things Arnie in there they need tennis act with purpose so we get and all that. Talk about how we snack and wet today's consumers are looking for him and he had that kind of relates. To all of us. So should be good enough Frankie yeah. Finally we invited it. Finally we invited a graphic designer to join is the studio he'll be here in the final and fourth segment if you've ever had questions are. Curiosities. About package design branding 101. We're gonna do it all we're gonna visit with west well. And Wes is a exceptional designers worked on some great brands in the natural and better for you. Food and beverage space are gonna have him and I begin very exciting. All right it's that time in the show where we feature we dig in to one specific product we think it's cool what are we college Ursula. Pratt whole pie holes yeah. There's no good so yeah my mom yeah. Really cannot love that olive view Marty. I was would prohibit the SL sorry we walked in the store as we always do. We walked the store where we live we did lead in the stone thank you can't shop with. I nine member I know most people in our industry the same way they're really can't go shop CN unlike other dispersants nicely get this package a year and then. No way because I'll just be gone like I we want to the front door and my wife will actually look for things we need and I'll just wander around. You might sniffing coffee on McCarthy stiffer anecdotal and I don't leaned out Eli on the air but wow that's yeah. You really my only copies that Indiana you get up. But I am I sounding now I and my thing is I go to the coffee I'll even turning out until you actually like compliment I love coffee mistakes the other bathroom. Like I'm alone and can be quick and now plainly ulcer you sort of run hot. Ideally I don't Yankee and next hell Harry you're exactly what I do love the smell of like a fresh topic but if they have those little ventilation. Holes in the packaging for creeps like you all my god I isn't there they do people look at me like what is wrong with that guy was he. But I love they are sniffing coughing you can't differ anyway Korea yeah. It is actually watching the picture yeah this is so we were walking down the refrigerated I'll spot in Korea. It's plant based nutrition and he's so it is a blend. That the protein source here is a blend of key pro thirteen. Brown rice protein. Him protein to move on in this particular one downtrend. On Trenton is decal mean. And this has made the Allman milk plant proteins can count Vanilla and cinnamon. So check this out this is the part that I like cool bottle right great package LA Gloria really look at an inviting right there from Southern California from Los Angeles. But you look at and say OK what's what's gonna check out to be easy if you're. People that are looking for protein are looking for protein there's nineteen grams of protein and saw a huge spot in the small bottle up. But here's the thing. Only four grams of sugar. Can't go what they re look at looks like if they separated cane sugar and monk fruit extracts of oh yeah. So so that's a that's an amazing nutritional profile he gets you that much protein the small bottle. So of course they request okay and did it is fair shake the feeling like you you know I think I hear that so something like I hope that such as me imagining. Does that Oprah has got to seal within the -- decisive time that I announce that it took a sharp yet her nails look I mean yeah I hope you didn't. We got cups for everybody wanted to try this but okay if I'm looking for it I believe they're pretty close to a national nationally authorized the whole foods. Market across the country. And our guys seem. Her own chlorine in our own glasses swords there yeah it's very legit very legit and a track and I'm not waiting primeval bottle. Oh yeah I had strayed from the bottle all right here we go. The taste like chocolate milk. It doesn't like if liquor chocolate here for highlight how thick it is. And it and it's truly chop but he Canada's annual buddy but there's no weird the red and proteins sometimes has to be masked a little bit. It's up there as it yet I'm surprised diet. Yeah had to end it you know there is any mixture around protein and kind of maybe it's chunky or something but it's mean you can't it's not great year and now there's no it's really smooth it's really good. Don't you move texture with the Allman undertone but thank you wind can be hit it and I like it. Yen on its really did. So I'm wanted to know if grabbed the side of the bottle their what's the website while we're looked in and then. Wolf tell folks I don't drink Korea dot com include spelled KO ID I guess that's important when really one ME one more time hey you know IA yeah. So try to product we think it's delicious I think you will too and that is that true discovery linens yeah. It's time for a break. When we come back just to give you guys a little preview we're gonna you gonna enjoy this so speaking of characters this and protein. The founder. Of of protests protein chips is one intense while they just think that we all love them. Is they aren't like them you don't want and if he doesn't like you either now but as they missed creek. And I can't pronounce his last name we have to happen metadata only notable for a long time without having no idea how to brown. Based on the spelling but now we're gonna meet him when we come back you're listening to the natural underground. I mean most laugh and be in. I'm sick. Watson. Can't. I mean come mile and every now and then. Welcome back to the natural underground. But if you're new listener does show this is our favorite part of the program absolutely the best part we interview real life onto maneuvers brand builders folks actually out doing it. Right lots of folks talk about a big idea about starting a business maybe a food company. This next guy this guy the next guy is really doing it. Until they show we have the founder of fruits protein chips like really there more like tortilla chips would you say Ryan Kelly of tortilla chips I think they're corn chips yeah there's spectacular. Let's welcome creek and Jackie and to the natural underground. Thanks a lot of your dad glad to have young so what gaining inspiration decreed approved teen snack brands where you protein seeker yourself and needed adult product what happened. Yeah I want the mean its roots go back what ten years out so crowded gym eating approaching bars are much out should we start college and dubbed. Stay out of sync outlook approaching bars and urging shakes out so I would check back there was red chips. And the idea kind of started there I didn't do anything with just for another six years seven years. Thought god that was there and show all around approach major obstacle ball or stops exception I would like something different. So you're looking for a different delivery form continuing to build this man got in back yeah. So how much protein is is is in a serving approach. Throats of fifteen grams protein in the single bag in serving our big bag well while. Bag setup or serving a sixty grams and I mean I I've sat around drinking a beer out of they've got approached it like it is helping. Yeah well we are we at a time but we actually a part of our show come upper we talk about the evolution of snacking and and now people now are actually eating things that are good for them when they're snacking not just trying to make what you eat less of something and so what's the source of the protein. We keep approaching might split we want us there are some sort. Wait protein we realized. If you really couldn't make you crunchy taste good and we. We want a certain sort who they're. Or multiple aspects of it at. The dust do you approach in a market sums they have put it a question and debated Hartley put up. We double pea protein we got the pace to be good and we're very outlook apart we have to. They're really satisfying I mean really delicious they behave like chips because they are chips. How did you pick the flavors. We still open standard pretty flavors and look forward to your July bomb. Then make its own pulse we need a assault that wherever our plane flavor which is typically your tops buildings do what we realize that. Approaching actually has irk you that sort so we need to. Actually flavor of the product that you get at least better. And so we jump away from that that we would would not show true to begin not so we use. Crucially you achieve unit which drew an ice. Armed patriot garrido a novel and that I have one player that we launch pretty recently that has just been. Fantastic and it just because it's so unique edit the post a token it's sweet first company except we're first some could ever sees in a shipment Coca. But it's sweet it's it's almost like a decadent and yet still satisfy and still feel young today they get it's it chip but has that will suite now. My favors the Barbeque man that is so exceptional. A phenomenal. So we're fine approach in the storage you have met with those like salty snacks are you put it with a protein bars where did you decide death house the product. It's essential interest rate up view we're. We sort of company were really left sport cushion that's. Sodomized saying I'm fitness guy and helped guide and I was one code for five workshops on. Albeit slowly kings in the country and your result in shops whatnot. So when the grocery we really tradition in June after stacking that our terrible policy it's where you need to be said Apple's back at dodger most certify the guest who creates sort street. That's should be at all. All we shoulder and that that and we realize that we have to go back core roots are worked with a touch it and feel on this and then helpless rude format. That story that this is sport Trisha Clark it's replacing protein bars or consumers walking out I'll. So when you gonna grow explore our line action now placed it came close to the board this boat attrition that's more so than than Apple's backs up. Coming sense you know he referenced that achieves these geniuses creek absolute genius I Berger thanks. We love that I know. About the. They're moving away from the product and talking more about youth entrepreneur we'd like to ask every guest we have where did you grow up and what did you want to be when you Wear. A tiny child a tiny tot. Are. Are. Owen Nolan creek I'm not so sure he can describe what he actually wanted to be but give us like clean numbers. Look at and I'm I'm born bred new Yorker from law out richly. On being in first generation a country. And or obviously I didn't actually you know what I want to be I'd do I need to. Do something big. That there have to use some of being the oldest daughter being first generation where I've said. I've folic in this country torn out of pocket could afford clothing or any thing. And put forth kids to college and wood that rolled a couple of life style and I have myself and I do above and beyond could not be giving everything. And that that's kind of what those mod date Tuesday at every now and started out pretty well like. Odd I'm not thought that that that's kind of trust me. Yeah you absolutely are mamet that's how things get done so you have those shoes to fill and then you go to your family how did you tell them I'm going to create a chip. How to tackle over. Quite honestly not great initially. Right so when I was an icing investment banker who. Before it goes coverage food in the food agriculture and I've specialize in merge and acquisitions so I reached such. Do you get a white couple of America and that worked with the Manhattan making a lot of money as young kids and but actually hated it. And what I thought it all the old put it straight and I cut the idea character back and what I set out what parents are doing that they have leader. I wouldn't say they were not supportive digit stuff. We're very cautioning and title logo rushed a little bit put its car come around we're back in good terms or they're okay coverage and fantastic. Really proud and I'm really the FB proud now that they go out and find your product Fauria and and tell you that they bought it in some particular store. Of course yes go like prayer to whatever it is Catholic Irish are ships are here resolve them like we sibling barely got. The tech pictures again loaded deal done pretty cool. Paula under attack like I'll Wear your Spotify you know also your Twitter saw what it's like yeah it was sold ironed out so. So gather the product without ever after they've been they've been fantastic but. Yet ridiculous how much of Marshall road feel like I would give money I make sure. Nice Hewitt seeded they're nicely done he got to third creek will all line with his parent I'm more impressed at your parents. Know what's happening over at Spotify that's casual Internet crime that is as well. What all elevated it's a photographer what are on FaceBook friends or gravel what have you out we're pretty. Local and lively social media so it'd look possible fall parties because the tactic quotes there's 67000 poke. So I get it all the time I have a Spotify my phone and I see all I will see a little banner for approached. So we hope creek what's your what's been your heart is day on the job thus far. Sort of day in the us we got. Tell her I mean I've I've had some real trial that you relation. We're a major buyer and dobbs. Door to door doors selling it. Co packer go bankrupt in about three years ago. An ongoing lawsuit would go publicly traded two billion dollar whose law are coming after us. So besides avoiding legal battles a billion dollar companies do have their lessons front Norse. I call if you go back at creek you could go back to whisper in your own here in a non creepy way. What would invite us to always be your advice that you know now that you wish you knew that. Bob saw a movement toward a lot of properties including bio and I don't have boxer's political all the Gabriela I'm. A mentor. And I tell one anything. Whether to me whether it's another consultant whether it's. The sound on micro pull it by it more doesn't matter. Listen to everyone but don't necessarily take their bikes. Make your own decision you Roger Rome goldeneye oh bishop this company and can't stick to what your thoughts were with. Well look that wanna kind of soaking in and then make an educated decision from that eleventh nobody can tell you exactly what to do what is right move could very note Cuba right now. Man that's so good you are because every situation. That Iran every marketplace Iran supports your point whatever vision you may have had. We have people who build brands solely so they can pass it off to their family members we have other people Orion three year. Yeah I'm gonna build this thing in solid timetable if I can do it faster I will. And so it's your point you gotta kind of filter all that advice based on way Iran and how might apply. Love up so accretive. For proper also forget what would we went to bat channel. And we want you to lodge reassurance that we did not appoint Jewish tradition or we work. Get a place an actress set and that we have a good friend of mine who solidified in my head of sales a big company on then booted a 2030 years and it by just plain wrong and that's no ultimate owner which is more of just we sure look bad and do what we are trying to push protein bars or try to figure willow started opening it was for the consumer to try to. A different to look ruled approaching course where they shop and shop and go to Marcia. So. Now when did you gently tell us everybody. I wanted to reiterate to just for our listeners what's what's. Creek is done that so interest you know approach is instead of just coming out and and coming out with a and other snack and putting it in the chip pile where the protein seeker does not. Ago. Normally right they've kind of they view that is all right Harvey. So he's starting to put going out really going after that protein seeker by putting the product in places that they're buying protein. So it's just a genius move and I think you know retailers to get really excited about what's been fun to watch. Final question right yet Justin our side yet controlling your own destiny in the store it's been great to watch us do that. But you have beautiful packaging. How did you tackle how to communicate what your product is easily and effectively approach is more than a chip. So we. Rep about I had a good friend who ducks don't blood does not work for a lot of huge companies doing a private label. Bombs were fortunate that we're in New York weather's facts do what rush street the third fifth person you'll buy it probably designer. And she did great jobs actually really help out the foreign how to live presents the line to give it about ten different options the one thing direct credit teller look. We're approaching companies that number one I think upside. And two we want something black. It's just something we would think it's sleek and cool that's what we want a date and done we're out third generation packaging now and I retired your package and a little party you put root dot org or we got to do that's what edits but today. The biggest message which is approaching and then from there you undersecretary of messages which is not Jimoh retrieving it sort spilled buckets of low calorie low carb low fat. But really thought who your what you want to base first and that kind of work your way about marks. A love it. We have folks wanna know more about throats protein chips where'd they go which web site. We go to www. Deep throats. Dot com and the notes and to grab a you approach footer it's wrote stays put flash throats. And yet we also all the good social media stuff and packed tight roads aren't all that stuff. Will do it man we're so glad he be on the show we're excited I would have asked our blisters mango I'm try the stuff you're gonna be happier feel good about what three thanks creek for being on financial on the ground. I thank god shirt got. OK when we come back we're gonna delve a little deeper into the world of healthy snacking and kinda how that has evolved over the years the American consumer. Hopefully at sixteen you will be back but James Marks on the natural underground. And I think in game. Well I am. Welcome back to the natural underground. Like after chatting with creek from growth in those are pretty tasty aren't they we nibble on those a little bit during the break those are fantastic. It's gonna be Justina talk about the emerging world of smacked him. The way America snacks has really changed over the years and particularly over the last maybe five to ten. So we don't look at that something we did on a project. Our wizard Linda mowing your favorite person to touch agency just like where we're BSN yes as she created this smack teen sort of history of America and it's so cool visually will try and put it up on. Since she created I think we put it up on Nam are social media sites. But 1960s. Was all about sort of snacks as treats seventies you begin to more of that convenience of bland plus the low calorie. Eighties began a low fat. Ninety's a low car but then also the birth of kind of protein as a driver and snack team. You ended 2000 maybe 2010 and start to see the the launch of a lot of portion control stuff all the hundred calorie pack yeah news all of that is sort of a bit about. He'd been less of something or the things that are less bad for you we put less of this and there. For me and it's been interesting to watch over the last few years that. Sort of the consumer in the industry that rain moving over this. Hilltop and this tipping point were all sudden now it's about trying to be more functional putting things that are actually good for you what caught snacking with a purpose news right so it's been fun to watch that and speaking of stacking with a purpose American consumers now 94. Percent of Americans say they snack daily in fact about half of American athletes most of their meals coming grazing. So though he riddler meals but more frequently during the day and where we're did out but a 6% you aren't snacking and yet who are those like. I hired as a wildly interesting nor awful people I don't know what else is not good way less. How much GM if you wanna get out you're not down to it and then I snack once today than normal given the news will be an equally importantly big meals that is absolutely right Maya. So then last little fact to consider that what you Justine is you know 64% of Americans are looking to increase protein in their diet so they're getting more functional but then 28% of those are even looking for more plant based proteins. You'd take that even further down to sort of the millennial group and now it's somewhere around 3740%. 40% a look teen. For more plant based and a healthy snacking. So we thought today we have an interesting guests we've we've dialed up our friend he's like an industry innovative creative guy. Been on some great brands very successful brands such thing as James moss and James is joining us by phone James welcome to the natural underground. Terry what liberties that she got the hit accept. The engineers is the coolest accent. Probably among the coolest that we interviewed so easy to say anything in the sounds believe. And I can't believe by now I'd usually just little start impersonating a nationally in that. I'm why we're nearly now doubt you'll relish yacht where where in the world is that accent. Originate James. Pick that I can do many many get those people in Australia New Zealand actually some African so. Well it very Clinton then who knows he's got a charity a unique accent suggest funds and that's the end of an actress so she can pick up those he's probably studying did you study. If I did have to take AM so she was army classy got on your south African thing pretty quick from Monroe who. So yeah episode James what are you from here. Perspective what are consumers looking for today when they snatch away what do you see changing. Yeah integrated category right now I think that competitions at equipment around this conference out of the nail on the head shots and knocked it down the meals anymore revolution work. You know maybe it's what they do today families fortunate enough to have a meal together but yeah. The portion control of the convenient of slacking in the and that sort of a list of last summit as in billion eating your desk is really our. Little corner. Snack or meal supplemental beverages of that backlog of gas right now what we're seeing. Illegally allotted for questions should listen reaches such as well. Definitely portion control will be looking for another hundred calories and act. Along with that a great extent that we want to eat get caught border and border. And drink pretty gritty and clean water. Actually. Hi ensure that the circuit but. The great kicking people functional thing they're particularly agreements so that they calorie picture up the days or at least try to watch that. We didn't want to have some functional aspect of it that well so. And decadence was. Functional and reporting and control what consumers really want to have everything in this tactical alleged. The key thing outside of the actual product in the face that potential there is a lot of transparency erupting naval lingering yeah yup. So you know win and that is to be more. Held accountable for your lot of deals that come pretty down 567800. Calories you'll love what and it. Not consumers will fall war. Sensitive to what are they putting in that it snacks and blood that you lose that Israel today. It's actually kept up a lot about what that she reached. But as many sectors were being shot and focus in tremendous Sheila enables new ingredients. Annual ball slightly changed multiple Tbilisi which actually look at both excellent. Are different than the message you have is a new. Your debt but it cannot be looking into the summer temperature sensitivity to the consistency. Well and opened up this neck and although some of outer packaging so you know the equipment that some folks were tremendous programs. They don't focus of the ingredients and benefits at dairy created. Then solely created a trip but there are focusing our legislation be on the packaging. And academia except circular for the consumer the second part. When you said a couple eventually things there in the first and foremost thing can't be understated. Man part of this evolution is that it still has that taste great. Yeah we yeah I can remember a day in this sort of better for you natural food and beverage industry where. If they didn't always takes great you know people sort of cleared the first hurdle on ingredients felt good about what was in it. But it wasn't you know there wasn't the creativity the experience the the innovation in the development that the Internet you know bringing chefs there are people who are duties to kind of make sure it also taste great. That is really changed over the years if if we haven't had any blisters particularly may be outside our industry and listening on the radio. If you haven't if you're thinking of your grandfather's natural food snacks man go back into a store and try to that is very different got to have taste love that you said that. What do you see that is kind of a lot. Give me some examples of sort of cool next generation and our hot emerging snack brands that you see out the market. Yeah it was without going into the branches yet but how categories are really evolving quick and the sentence. You know consumers and driving it resent being hurt react eventually shut try to chops this with a lot of focus plot that is anything that's plot paid. That is sustainable in that regard seems to be very heartless folks are looking of that it's generally strangely the treaty. So hot hot particular occasion green tree. You total lack faced again. You know you'll wreck other Max degree operating base. And not green trees seems to be fought wore off topic enough that the so that you list. That the gluten free of the series treaty. Local court doesn't he get it could think we're expecting neglect tens. Tree and peanut allergies and everybody who are around that snacking specifically what can assurance that. That's something that definitely on the right of Israel screen at the moment deliberate read articles here's acts. That focuses on that. Treaty and not out in the dressing packets basically. Erica but doesn't have any of those personalities and that of the cricket particular school. Pretty wicked step of the country average cost smiled slightly conservative outlook are either so you're heading hit something with analogy. You are right on you don't want it honestly you don't wanna do any harm and you also just don't want that responsibility. And if you can have those options and you know our kind of allergy and friendly are relatively free. Are free from how great is that you also mentioned grain free man we profiled last week on a show that we don't think we've put out yet. A brand based here in Austin called CF OK and it's just it's it's such a grain free tortilla chip but it tastes like legit. Great tortilla chips you see eating granola you see that evolution migraine free going on everywhere spectacular. Call them. Yeah that remote stretch you know you mentioned about it yet but tonight Q you're a 100%. And it had been concerned about that but those trends you know factored in many aspects look Bob. Well into the lifestyle. As well folks that are on the other end of the spectrum that protection analogy so look to hit it has revved up there. That are addressing that pro actively you know look at the site. And and I I really think we'll talk about now over the social perspective just make up a lot second. And good battery functional providing Jews out also a couple of cold water. You know leading the sluggers. And it's an old head very well today it portion control. Functional. Smacked. That you're correct and it well you know they refrigerated. The clock but good luck Britney good offerings of having observed it and they ought. We are seeing more and more aware of these regret not taking their core business where. Did brilliantly coupled with the Jewish. Folks some folks are susceptible to assure the content of Jews. And then coming up bullets Auckland and protein water base about it actually doesn't need to. And then that is the hit certain element and that was a real consuming country. Oh good good tasting portion control optional black. This is so great we only have about a minute left in this segment surprise it's going to quick is your two interest and. Just like I had a quick question yes so we're just tell you about sort of the trends in actual snacks but can you talk to anything the EC national retailers how they're building now the healthy snack keen sections of their stores. Yeah that that's a great question. Still ridiculous critic seem particularly that is being brash. Going to try and focus on that actually acting partly local scratched so do you look at target right now elicit the target specific via the nut. And then the question what can that could have very large acts. If you look at the credit goes pieced. The expansion planning. In the retail and graphic though which are typically two different sections of the school because you sort of fiscal two different geographical areas of the school. Has really let it. So retailer grateful that they treating it as a destination category. Noting that folks are coming in there looking for a second separate thought you know at the same time you look at the bottle and argued that gauntlet partly due to tie the supporting cheat sheet slacking march. And it should talk. That's a lot of sex. Stick focusing on folks that are coming in to look for fresh refrigerate it. And then get a sense of sort coming across the facts during the regular big shopped shot chart with other folks to buy snacks. Typically have about 23% higher cost according. The vote for the dropped one correctional. Knowing that affects overall you know profitability for that retailer all kinds of other things awesome. Exactly exactly so you know we can ought to. And and definitely this is an area could learn how consumers. Enjoy snacks and changing that they pocket of consumption when Ben Ali period. We can't or what is a political accreditation programs so for the Brandon the elements and then and also a couple of I've mentioned. So it isn't so he wouldn't it be terrorism consultant. Shaq they Wear around snacking there are actually sponge well what can at least. A that that you know put depreciation and competitor bought tinged around snacking has subsequently been looking for tax. James this has been so fun so informative we hope to have you back every time we talked about industry trends. In the future if anybody wants to send you a question you have an email that your OK given out on the punt. Litre I personally will probably the easiest exchange loss. 196. Sign at gmail.com. That sounds great James thank you man this has been great an ambulance soon. Cool okay our final break we come back we're gonna dive into the world a package design and branding. And ever created wizard in the studio with a seed has again and dig this lots of questions formed. Will be back in a moment you're listening to the natural under on my casts. We. I mean come. Well okay. Okay yeah I am so. Welcome back to the natural underground. I'm your host Al springer you're still the post I just alert earlier just like I NN. And look at the touch agency and that our new brand incubator we ask all the time about packaging to Zion about brand dean. So you might be a listeners who is the kind of right in the middle planning a new product lines and haven't questions. Maybe get that big cookie. Cookie idea that you've been kicking around and you're not in three years in this is that. Maybe you manager brand that need to refresh the new look it's stalled global bed the numbers are where you want to be. And have get a business idea but the idea of doing package design are going to. And it kind of engage a few professional graphic designer intimidates you. We're hoping that we can. Which reminded ease and understand that process a little bidding gets Samir questions. Answers to join us the studio today alive as opposed to by phone where we've kind of been all phony today have phony phone and does our own anti we've been phone heavy nor always phony but it. My wife tells man this sincere look to a car dealers so I announced that. Bad thing at it and I found out Tony that's true love to join the system it is west well. He's a designer with a ton of experience in designing better for you brands some of my favorites. We've known west for a long time so blesses the welcomed an excellent era debt thanks or have mail yes so. You know tell us some just for our listeners to also give us some examples of some interest in brands that you worked on over over the years. Africa. Such guerilla stuff in the spirit industry yeah and so hence the cool tequila. I've got spear it yeah yes she didn't think it's it's a funds based or cannot demand has perks you sample go to the I can't comment to get physical a simple blood too but aren't working day and had no professional reason to do it you know sampling all the time. Give us like a cool spear brand you worked yes prize the most well known as the very vodka yeah. You will linger too about that yes I agree completely name her caroling on grapefruit I think was one of the earlier flavors. He board ice like comment to me as we've known those guys for awhile. You didn't know really your drinking so much to do so tasty. And then then suddenly can hit yet. Yes some breaker walls did you help them with the original label or out of network yes and the original. Designed. I helped out with us out of playing a support girl and her designer. And then when they did rebrand the packaging I handle my muscles may now awesome very cool. So as you approach these hot projects. Kind of what your design philosophy how do you start something like that did. To people give you kind of the general idea what they want to have happen and do you put in is some processes unique to you what does that look like. Yeah. So a few things. Let's say from an objective standpoint there 102 full. I wanna take a strategic look at the space in the category itself particulars shelf space. See what everyone else is doing what the landscape look exactly. Where there are opportunities to stand out that's worth saying that at the same time. A one like in body through the aesthetics in the design. What the the unique qualities of that product or at the company culture us and really visually. Tell that story give little exercises to do that how do you draw out of them. Them that we think. If I'm I don't know manages designer part of the challenges folks have all this. Passion and it's their baby they want they've been thinking about this thing for awhile but. How you can get them to draw out what they really want out of their way or and then how does that work. Dead deathly your question. So that's the challenge with any kind of creative work right it's subjective so how do you help someone understand what they like her what they're getting at when it's such a subjective thing. Right so in my process well actually. Show multiple concepts. To the client and I don't even. Design those concepts the way I see a patient like in depth in the in the final sorted design I'll actually tailor that first round of concepts. To help facilitate conversation so more what they were thing Kean you're trying to reflect back to them and then watch on the gaps or say that waiting for a first of picking up a pick one that they gravitate to more yeah and but up. I'll present to them in person and that's really important for my process because I can actually see your reaction. And from there start to draw well okay like this is what they were really interested in these are aspects that they're really one to like communicate to the consumer and I can see that. Visually as I see there responses designs verses. Before you know something visual look at it's it's someone you might not have any idea of what looks good arrest record design and they're trying to come up with words in the can't really come up with those words yum but having having a visual. You know concept right there in front of them helps them watching them react to exactly that's very cool so let's contrast for a moment. So for bringing this brand new like like a completely new launch right what sorts of things should. And entrepreneur or think about you know under the words what do you need from them. If there are thinking about engaging our lists or Tina Manning gauge in a designer what do you need from them to get that process started what helps you. Yeah. Having a good understanding your product is always helpful right now the second mentioned. And specifically like what is unique about their products. Mean that's that's one thing I've always pointed at her and going to differ exactly like you're gonna. Put another took a poll on the shelter probably not an analyst successor and yup. So. If they ever really get understanding of those things. And that helps me it is to know what the objectives are and how to. Help communicate those things in the visual aid consumer all the. When we start projects Royce any kind of marketing. Messaging communication we start with positioning work like I do that target consumer. How do you define yourself which will tell us where in the set or on the shelf it should go through its food item or beverage. And then to your point lastly and maybe most important. What is your point difference because you said it in our industry and eat whatever we see that popular one year the whole next twelve months assist. Tens of duplication right everybody comes out just launches the same thing. So very each time. So that's this year where he was like a brand new. Product to what it on the contrary if the brand just feels like they need to refresh. How is that process different. Yes. So I think one it really depends specifically on that on that brand and moments. If the client has. A product in there in two stores are local they have been in their very long then and they're looking net that national distribution as a goal no then hey we can ditch a lot of stuff. And certain kind of fresh over. Round but if they have products that they have pretty good distribution on it. And it's important to think through okay. Are we gonna visually connect as we don't wanna lose consumers that they already have it harder and consumer exact kind. But we also. Don't wanna stay stagnant and Lou is that the shelf of bill and kind of keep keep persisting in the same things that are working sharp enough on the shelf. Now how do you interact with the brand if they'd just maybe can't make up their mind or even. Maybe if they wanna move in the direction that you think is just like. This colors really not gonna look well on a balk look good on a bottle or at that fonts you just can't read it like how do you navigate those relationships. Yeah. So wind is discussed setting expectations on the front end in that's spears statute to sort of challenges you can run into their one is that client is doesn't even know who they are right so. And identity peace what makes them different those kinds of things. Helping them get a better understanding of that is important none and then two I'd say them were. Challenging issues that you have. My client has multiple cooks in the kitchen the kitchen says how can. And so. And they all want different things yeah. That's always fun but setting as expectations on the front end of okay who's gonna be kind of deciding factor you guys are disagreeing on on those sorts of things. And then from our process just helping them gain an objective understanding to a lot of the subjective kind of SA create decisions I'm making. So if we're deciding between two colors for instance. Overall. Trade dress of of the package on the on the shelf. And every seeing that say one of the callers is. His wife for instance I mean that's not tolerate but I am. If every other package announced in national space is why it. Then you probably don't want her all of the white package is yours in a blend in there about your race this is a bigger really simple example of hey like objectively speaking you shouldn't do this because as there's mentions why we've made this decision verses hey I think this looks good and you think it's everything looks good and hours in a butthead. She is give us two nuggets are one is making sure that. Then we pushed back a little bit on the brand. Saying. We got to organize your thoughts right when a difference all of us all the things we talked about the then also. Kind of ultimately help them figure out that they need a one point final decision making and direction. Because they can mention is just incredibly frustrating for somebody like you. To have one part of that party telling you give me one direction somebody else doing another and now you're stuck in between. To folks who don't have the same vision or three or whatever that group might be we're seeing more and more brands where there's a collection of of people that are involved that'll launch and they're all sometimes equals yet so interesting challenge. And then the second thing you said is just bringing it back to bear on the real world. Of what's gonna look at on the shelf the lighting the competitive landscape all those things quite interest. Can you think of any examples brand just you know Michelle Tuesday is there really catch varieties and while those people do and an awesome job. Yes so. One that comes to mind is epic bar. Not beautiful packaging yeah I think they did a great job of really telling the story and and calling attention to those things that are unique about their product that set them apart. I'm narrow comes through and in this in the packaging. Another when it comes to mind as Boston Beer works. Like Camelot as a local products. Actually think they did a great job of understanding the space and category. That's one of the most cluttered shelves bases you can walk into yours are so many mark servers now are coming out and all of that very unique. Packages yet Torre their prayers and oh yeah you're not seeking the high level of competition yeah and it's actually even with a real zags are not your white comment. It's hard to stand out in a world that they've done yeah. I'd I think one of the things that really help them succeed in the shelf space be excuse me. Was. Having a conflict. Consistency between you two other Beers. And so it actually all kind of you see 11 Boston Beer works beer in you know it's awesome you're all a solid color from the top two thirds exam there death and then even the in even the the name itself. Was a good decision on their part for the category of the so much of cells in that space are driven even bite and Ike. You know owned by the local microbrewery rev playing our political aspect and then also driving consumers not only to their product I shelf but driving consumers. Back to the upper itself Brian we missiles there's. This is so good men were or are ready out of time but it is our wish you we'd love to have you kind of be designer we bring in whenever people have questions or issues things like that we always call you. Or or talked into coming into the studio. There's been really helpful to each scene here kind of what you went. What you go through when you're kind of working with brands in the some things that they can make a process easier and so thank you folks wanna get hold of you. And wanted to talk is or can email address that you want to put out there and comfortable putting out yet definitely less. Waddell that's W. LL designed a column so would ill. Designed dot com and a perfect thanks Wes this is great. Our idol that was this week's show thank you for listening to the natural underground. Give any questions comments concerns compliments for anyone in particular. You can email us at info. At new brain university dot com and we would love as he followed us on FaceBook at the natural underground. Thinks Phyllis Steen and McCutcheon next week absolutely thank you. Yeah.