Welcome to natural underground I'm your host Al springer. The show is brought to buy new brand university the educational arm of the touchy agency. Joining me in the studio today our expert team of brand builders all still full week or two after Thanksgiving I'm guessing. We have Ryan who in the spirit of the holidays. Is really like our shows a great day. He's personal something in the crowd looks forward to but if you're not careful. Ultimately he overwhelms the play. The control group. I hit it that last few here is G hustle and the like stuff I mean is still thinks giving them. We like the setup like this is their dream is to Thanksgiving just on this tar show you sort of forget about it you know honestly question its value at some point. But then you kind of come to the conclusion that stuff means a little weird but awesome that's just the. Imagine Thanksgiving without stuff yeah. Now just kinda I don't like stuffing. Two elephants to I actually legitimately legally and announce it for me you know and legitimately and only greatly. Boom so why this discipline is phenomenal there's no clear now. And I don't like just in the spirit of recapping our Thanksgiving now the shelled by air for weeks later she didn't mean nobody be in that mood mood. But I can't stands sweet potato anything I really highly disagree that the oh Baja. Well awful I sort of remember him tell it touches like try to use and. What I honestly don't like is when their most like mashed potatoes but I do like them I had some of Thanksgiving that are more like. Huge in almost like crispy in the hasn't solicited money. But I don't like the machine and dad there's and there's a much yes those are not being mashed potatoes of the athletes tend to Iraq like they are cool also speaking of what we eat on Thanksgiving. I'm going to be fun to open the show and talk a little bit about Thanksgiving traditions I know at least in my family I had a grandma who has taken dish that wasn't exactly a crowd pleaser so very Henry searched. On Thanksgiving recipes and I found this great article which we imposed our FaceBook page. It's nineteen old Thanksgiving recipes from vintage ads and recipe books and they are. Preposterous thing. I love old ads I am only able do right mom you know have to be in like any kind of antique store they have the magazines there. There's something from from. Those awful sort of side effects this camera and amp print ads about the women really a Wiki an occasion in an area and then weird sort of healthy claims about vitality he and then strange car. Cigarette is that yes he's good for the baby here when I guess yeah. Is it yet it's very like that in the same spirit of one of the rest fees they silence this hot doctor pepper cocktails. Where you meet up. Doctor pepper over the stove and then some lemon. I'm also probably one of the worst things aside it's called a cream Berry candle and you make it's like at all waxy looking candle that's made. With mayonnaise and like a news and so it sits like a column and you literally melts it and he melts it over a year salado. So the drip greens are like Canada. Osce progress that was awful awful it's awful. I can't understand how it would even G and what kind Joseph Latin this and do you create in their forms like a candle fort till later Mel do you like it must be EL like some sort of fat you know health yeah be honest that's why they might actually tase him. Soledad all. Felt the solid south you can see the picture on outposts on the FaceBook pages it's relatively I got a non food the food question for a bit you know I make a big breakfast on my holiday weekend and sometimes or you know even weekend if people visiting. So I made a ton of bacon which is glorious right. But I've always wondered so you can if you do it on top of this the oven or no. You you get quite a lot of grease or oil in there and then I poured in you'll container and then Harden Jeff what are you supposed to do with that stuff. I don't know I mean if you're not may I just do that ultimately Garmin street is that yeah pre is an environmental no I think though I don't I don't lease of pentagon under any yet no I don't think so we thank you be better to do that then put it on the drain so maybe that was the kind of like that forms a solid that's what you think the scandal that melts over yourself yes yeah and nine at all sound and I mean then if your real healthy cooking your own take that fat you're like some good within. Now junior and number I've let some pencil vacant that my angst. I don't know tops ill few cooked eggs in the same pin as they didn't let Alan summit is by the idea. No I'm draining it constantly. Like is you know only a person definitely. Oh I. And I don't need a million of us Ahmadinejad did talk about Belinelli that are. And discussion about a hundred but I can see the doctor about it just thought Farrah or Ryan do. It's either rescue for the orange mound podium and if you. And AM yeah and beyond yeah beyond that does this one's one and yams fresh orange and marshmallows and a casserole additional number eight straight has never enjoyed right there but what do you guys like fruit cake I don't. Well nobody. But it was him gap in the communities have proved good Kate great to create nasty crap yeah he hit that viewed enunciated I remember then you would have to hit it. Actually have severing. Oh wow you never encountered like a true fruitcake I don't think 00 most intense as you very excitedly Al lottery tickets and coursing Canon Texas. There is the fruit cake capital world I think. And fact there's a place you possibly be worse capital of the world. He yeah. I don't have a claim more a little nit sure thing right there's is fruitcake but. You could stop there and get the fruit cake and it's still bad and so hopefully nobody is listening from coursing Canada or has great pride in that yeah so we apologized. Lovely town on gun there either pretend we don't apologize to and there. It's a new America we stand biased and also my my grandmother my pre in my personal life would make. Like in real life personal life would make jello like that the red jello and put. Carry it she beans in it shady things and then would top it with a dollop of Manning is. And then sprinkle out with paprika. And that was something she really look forward to what kind of hard drugs yeah yeah yeah. I don't know in the disappearance of healthy eating after our week of Thanksgiving indulgence. We probably won a squeeze in in this first segment our weekly salute right till what do we mean this week yeah. Didn't know she. Good so it's in my phone yeah. All right that's our salute to weekly addictions. I'll start OK look I'm speaking of addictions I am so into this popcorn now called pop art. Have pop art specifically popcorn you've probably seen is just huge race and every every retail outlet has multiple started with kind of popcorn Indiana. And then went through my union Quinn and all these other brands that are out there now but. I dig pop art and I'll tell you why. They take great popcorn but then they had really crazy flavors. So one of the tag lines as popcorn is the candidates meet Paul we paint with a bold flavors Lou I love that idea right so try these flavors oversized. Rosemary truffle towards high coconut curry. So this isn't just movie theater butter this isn't karma all this is just really unique flavor write a check her listeners again super satisfying. You wanna try and I advise it. Go visit. WWW. I don't know why I say that the thing 1990 yeah our Disco to pop art snacks dot com Brian. Patagonia provisions that Patagonian. Add up at a young of the climbing snowboarding clothing company the really famous they're kind of conscious company that's kind of amused. But our guys saw last Black Friday donated ten million dollars all of their profits from out of his impressive to yeah environmental organizations. Founder of arms and aren't so they wanted to get industry space is a cycle through space is broken or needs now. And we know that here on that show I on the show. And so the concept and in and tranda. Change the way people do things it's really cool that you soups fish nuts bars not cereal so far past that you take with you wanna track them you can go to Patagonia provisions dot com. When all that's neat well last clear my product of the week is purples up Owens type of accidents here in a little under the weather. Getting a little cold out of any means support who had a good they have a means of where they also digestive support in a party detox Ryan cough cough. Nudge nudge Ryan unfair that these little convenient packets and it's based on ancient iron about a plan to send. You drop it into like the hot. In hot water in it to sauls I like to make so little honey it's perfect and it really. Helps ward off colds and Ager immune it's. Sandwich and witchcraft. And we just yes and Andre vampires on get you but it really it really is dead and it's very honesty and this is great for the semi. Kind of calming or something and I do it comforting yes RE a little more information go to herbal the sap dot com follows date time for the break we come back we will be joined by another wildly unique knack for. We'll see you in a minute you're listening to the natural underground. Me unit needs. Yeah yeah. And now it's. Okay. On this. Welcome back to natural underground. We are very lucky to be joined today by Jeff accurate founder and president. Kick Stevens jerky trail Max. Jeff thanks for joining us and welcome to the natural underground. I. Yes I'm doing great so what is Dick Stephens I think we mentioned the company people thought a guy named nick Stephens was shown up for what it's but as Jeff hill. Does big Stephen what we are is. It's say. It's a unique blend of an all natural or gluten free to those sodium. Beat jerky. Blended in the same bag whip premium raw nuts fruits and seeds it's good and I'll be nutritious match. How it is delicious for anybody that's just listening hasn't tried it and I had mentioned to Jeff I. Bought my first bag and a and a and of all places they kind of a low carb ice cream place that haven't haven't and film moment and we started chat and with Jeff right about that time so how long as the company are as the brand around. Right so usually. It is that the that the company's been around for calling she's almost five years now. The first two and a half years or really stand. Developing the product developing the brand. And it brilliant in the research and development stage because. Well what seems like an easy process goes. Kicking some jerky and mixing it up put some trail that we have taggants filling it up and calling Wal-Mart in killing 4000 sources. Wasn't quite as easy you know we found that the moisture in the a lot of the different elements. In the proper into the different ingredients cause little village area are in fact. Clearly had a chemical or are actually trying Gordon and trying to engineer at church you'd cooperated with. Betrayal making the same bat so so that but the walnuts and he can't well stated Christy mature he stayed and her. Yeah I mean 'cause once you think it jerky and trail mix together it seems obvious but how did you come up with a combination or. Who did and was that because you're out hiking and are doing stuff how did that happen. You know it was it was a I would do a lot more romantic sort. You're actually here though is kind of these operationally current came out of the trail mix section storage is kind of wandered around the store. Seeing how old outdated and bland and boring and stale. The natural next step was and kind of you look so yeah at the time you know you're rewind five years and you look at our islet like. Craved was doing there really was befitting Kara Kara that that could jerky biz it was dirty. Flat and our truck stop product and not a lot of innovation and and then credit cable on. Italian and very developed new flavors and packaging them and then different appeal. Our delicate there was an opportunity to do something in the generation child accept. And that we we might have something net and so you know Perez the combination of those two but it kind of maybe you realize that you know there's there's no that I have what are you trailed in the grocery store and and wanted to be the first guy to do that it's well but pick Steven. That's right so that you mention and have mean them in the same bag jerky Antrel Manx is that is that hard because of the just operationally because of the the moisture on one product and the dryness required in the other and how do you do that as much as you can talk about it. Yeah I mean it you know a couple Leo that was so argued part of the development process trying to. I'll avoid that moisture migration because that's what we did find a lot of blood that. The jerky was picking up the more than not and Rasheed were picking up the moisture the jerky yet. Blueberries are exploding and all sorts thanks so if it was adjusting how much activity was enough in a bad pitcher Ian traumatic and so. You know really came down chew. You know starting lit. It's all it back to the protein and and how we source our product lookup Dmitry. Resent every element in our back. All the products we are every aspect of our product. We contribute. Somewhat to. The ability for us to not. Have that moisture migration. So that it does play but soon to be patented and that a proprietary process that we have. To avoid that because a lot of people have been trying to do it have tried to do it. Other southern Turkey trauma is out today and it kind of on the corners route they take a little airline packet in peanut controller in package Turkey in college circuit traumatic and we don't really call that a new product we college's new packaging and show. You always feel like we really need something here we go in that it it something searches you're going easy route. Yeah the funny thing is and you certainly know Q came up with a that that combination. Of the jerky with a full thrill mex not your point just peanuts. This super satisfying and it feels like three a warm meal snack. Because you get the protein as well as you know some of the other fun flavors and there are so it's absolutely delicious. So Ryan personally turned us on tier brands and I want to talk about Dick Stevens the character you know with that adventure. Bring in the snack on on the trailer may be your rock I mean can you talk just about the name of the product and who Dick Stephen says it has created. Well you know it's he's you know it it's really just Kara Brokeback chew. It'll simpler and simpler times support people on core products and you'd pick Steven has just feel like an all American strong mean. You know you picture got hanging from a yes to put class and he's originally was back in crap and somebody eat. Food that it did you know it. It's certainly it's a simple name for a simple product and there we felt like it was just very strong middle school are trying to do. I wish it was I wish there was some guy named Dick even from some smoky or off our building and you're doing something amazing but sadly that's exciting as good. The good name as we just saw it was a good strong clean American name and and we followed that the category needed that in the category needed some identity the other betrayal men that. Yet the time that you are really just still looked forgettable names you know Rolling Meadows and sunshine are just. Just totally generic names that you forget our time you lot happens but we want it to my identity and not actually. I think that's what Ryan thinks when he wears the shirt. And that he is students and in Indiana Jones vibe from it and it. What does internally we don't feel that my looks like you wouldn't you just described it as a guy hanging off a cliff and then reached into his pocket and snack. It allows me off a cliff I'd be reached in my who can't help but in my pocket to call my mom and say hey you know. It's been great knowing you I couldn't think of imagine smacking at that point that's what is cool about nick Stephens. Or do you have a favorite. Variety of favorite mix yourself do you like. You know it that you don't deal with our regional peace blend is probably the simplest from the cleanup this you know it has macadamia has been all Americans blueberries cranberries and and beef jerky and so. It has each are clean and you know output by about march or use that. A lot of the turkeys these days that are out there that are very soft and pliable and partly eat like a stable peace camp. Arden that is literally the very clean product you know we don't do any synthetics to shop and answers to what we've we've reached critical reusable champ under our current crop that. We do it it's a very clean product you are like related regional peace ease in the attorney Colleen you're not seeing staying or scrapping the Turkey's popular pop. Were your top you know two hours later and usually not feasting later today. Right right what kind of folks by Dick Stephens. Well you know Helio currently so we've we've certainly a lot of love from the ostrich immunity at the illegal friendly crowd and obviously Toledo has caused this when you remain a buzz word today. But you know it's really the people that are looking for something more nutritious and probably more Albion something unique. Civic Turkey's as you know Turkey category as. Really kind of blown up over the last couple years thanks to craven. I think at this point it earlier reached saturation point arc. There's only so many different brands of blueberry lines along church Turkey that your gonna try. To kind of get burned down over saturated. We feel like we're kind of the evolution of the jerky struck in that it sucked that it truly is a different product not just a different flavor. And same thing on their trauma of having not you know that that industry is. Is desperate for Internet innovation so that we feel like introduce saying the church into the trailer is really the only integration. It's hard you know adding them and on Easter and Christmas but the trauma that has seen and a hundred years. Little later in our show we do at the last segment of a lot of our one hour shows we dual class then and today it's about innovation and that challenge that comes in with. That cooler and more interest in a product is in more and particularly on a scale and innovation scale. Then you have the challenge of where to put it in the store because you know is different and so I guess my question for you is. Are you a trail mix we jerky or jerky with trail makes are you truly kind of the best stuff. That and that's a great question because you know lowliest article you know we first hit the street on the product. It looked calling the the trail mix fires because we felt like. You we want to duplicate what craze has done in the turkeys died in the trail mix. And so. Quickly we got pushed over to use the word Turkey was in the description we got pushed over to this jerky category managers so. Or it in my heart it's that it trail mix with a jerky. From from category manager position is that jerky little trail. I think we're gonna commuters sat and I think that quote like his seat at present more in the trail mix that together and that's where we can really stand out more. But you know I overall though you know Frontline is is if you look at a map standpoint. Jerk used so I percentage. But ingredient and are so a couple of stronger on the church youth and these are great can product part. That makes sense where can our listeners go to learn more about Dick Stephens is our website is social media what is there. Her you know we got you know he's got a pretty good pretty strong following. On FaceBook. And in dram we have a nice groaning. Group of followers there and then we look at followers on Twitter but we're gonna seems to be. Going the way of my state fees that it doesn't seem like a lot of engagement on the air so. Well I think some well I think I think Donald who I think our president is using them. I don't think anybody else who are you okay the last guy in America still using it as soon as it would have. But I would say that they you know are are are what decided to Stephen dot com in between based group is currently Epsilon. We've we've regular regularly update that. Awesome okay this then we got to take a break there's been a great start were open we can keep you over one more segment. Winter when we come back we're gonna talk to a little bit more about the entrepreneurial side of your brand. So we should be great thanks for tuning in guys will take a break you're listening to that sort of ground. Me being the this. Okay. Welcome back to their natural underground. Today's show we have Jeff Eckerd from Dick Stevens he's the founder of Dick Stevens an incredibly. Tasty wonderful jerky trail mix combination fantastic. This part of the show we tend to get into things a little bit more entrepreneurial. So first if you don't mind Jeff will ask you where did you grow up. I grew up just outside of Chicago. So admitted all the excitement this year you're probably a Sox fan who just recently became a cubs fan. So I loved his socks fielder they've all you know we always like you know we put them at first start in team in Chicago and when you read the Chicago need to moderately T. Were glad to have this stock but no I would diet are gonna say. I knew them from talking to you say you had it was this just. And to see dream come true unbelievable month or two foreign. No it was crazy I mean I don't think I act failed the entire month so October and November. It was just. It's still very regal park opened about it thank you know how much like every day that reminder every hit the cup won the World Series. You know it then how can westerner that really happened. So what did you wanna be when you were growing up from I'm guessing me him making tasty snacks was now one of the dreams may be when MBS copper and astronomical what was it for you. Can have a you know I currently have I I. I'm not even sure they remember anymore. You know I grew up in the food business like that was or not. Commodities trading business and so. It seems like that's all I ever really knew him the food business and I don't ever really thought about going into the glue isn't so I got to college and expand on in the food business and so. You know I certainly had aspirations. Of you know baseball football player aren't quite that through. Growing now open and high school put. You know I think overall it is. I don't I never had that you know the media structure our our astronaut or anything like that confront. He's gonna move along. Yeah energy created date Stephens which is by the guy you wanted to be leader of the subconsciously you hanging from a clip and think about this pocket. I like. What did you do professionally before he started to experience. Well you know more in the import export trading commodity business telling raw material and until the larger manufacturers. And distributors. Look to digital are discovered general trading and commodity world with a group of parents. Very interest and I value whenever somebody says import export always think you're about to just that some secret code for your some black market drug dealer but I guess than the drug you're dealing with now is nick Stephens. I like it all right. This is sort of talked especially broccoli cork. If you think that I got it. So how how important were the Xperia meet did you grow up in the food business and he knew he did trading at one point prior to this. Did a lot of that with the relevant to starting a brand because you know far listeners. The entrepreneur and the entrepreneur or is the hero it's. Is that thing they all wanna be or they're doing it and they can't believe how hard it is how much did your background helped put that. Well I mean I think it definitely helped a lot because I have a lot of confidence in. And that back and do the business and knowing how to source of knowing. The market trends then annoying word how the prices are different commodities moved. So yeah had a a tournament like competence on the back side of the business. That it knowing that I can put the product together and so I think that helped a lot because you know we get. Do we get a lot of halt monologue called and we get calls from. People a lot of start their own business and wanna I wanna go to your teacher on the bigger but can that will cope Patrick sammon. Lot of them have had no idea. You know I wouldn't know the first place you don't get. A law. And so. I think that that my confidence in my very funny on the sourcing side of the business and understanding it. Definitely helped give me the confidence to move forward with their experience. So they day you decided that the day you decided to actually go out launches bowlers. What's been your kind of the big challenge in getting the product off the ground. You know it's say you know we we learned some are black and then our branding. I think that had I. I think I would have taken more time to do some more consumer panels. To better understand what people were thinking when they looked at the back on the shelf because I didn't I underestimated. But six seconds to potentially we get in the grocery store and only first launched it was cold Turkey Max. And and we met actor tuning you know much later. During a small survey was that. About two thirds of the people were looking at it and saying jerky Beck oh great here to chip to make my own Turkey. The other third of the people were saying oh it is a mixture of different jerk he's that great. I like different Turkey. All of the almost a very small amount respect all the dirt he was trying to extract a great idea. And so looking back I should have pause after I got the branding so it ought to look. And then said oh Q what are what people think when they look at is back and so. Yeah that's that's a classic. On to pay an aerial lesson in net new business less than. Where you think this is straightforward and then if you step back and they're right that's how you would read it if you're consumer does not always that easy to see when you're needy then it. Jeff to Jimmie trouble commits and retailers to carry another snapped and how did you tell the story to get the interest of our results. Ideally it definitely. Took them over coming up Q. Eat eat to get them to understand why. A consumer would want. Nuts with their jerky and then that we and that was really a lot of the initial. Response is so you'll be initial sales were released. Extracting the nutritional value of this in the cleanest of the product and really riding on the coat tails. The all natural all natural trap because it was it is a very caught in product so. And really kind of struck and some of it is there's the truth nutritional element of the product so. We're we're as we're we're selling more mistake at the time. You know the move the product is healthy or good for you and innovative. You know won't be able to eat you sort now. And we're more selling the sizzle that caters to the cool idea is not brand new to it that your unit traumatic life and I think it. And circle that is fast forward of where Iraq today currently started. One more early question when you saw that bag on the shelf for the first time. Well how blown away we're in India compared to the cubs winning. Yeah it could not compare the Cutler that is far more exciting but it was pretty excited. I think it I think it really you know we we got some early success here in Charlotte. And it was hardest hit. Show up in a smoothie king down the road but we had a really early winter at target and instead target was probably. The Big Easy sale iPad because the fire while the product you look at grant and chew on the color should love the way the court date this. Pushy with the timing was just there that we got it all out to about 711100. Target stores each so. I think the first summit locked into a target and thought penny on the shelves it was kind of an out of body experience. And so now what you know now we've we've seen a lot we did a lot more it's been a lot more players who don't even realize because that that this patient are you on our. And so it exciting to see. It's it's exciting recede. In other places lower public now and Warren wegmans and wait earnings dropped though it. You were you born probably about 5000 locations today so. Right death every onto the Norris some really tough times building a brand. There was one story we thought would mean doing this for a what was one of the biggest challenges you face. And I think that you know the it's the universal lot of those ships her little lot of those moments where you stay. You know I could be doing a lot less work for a lot less for a lot more money and a lot last Saturday turned. So yeah yeah there there's there's been moments. Every aspect remembering it you know that. From from the packaging into the USDA approvals to. You know what we we've started getting larger orders from a production standpoint so. There was a lot of headaches then you know it is it's a matter of just kind of happening here. Eye on the prize knowing you know where you want and out and not letting all those in between get in the way. So if you go back in time and missile seem redundant but I wanna dig a little deeper into this for just the final minute here. If you go back in time and then nine creepy way and whisper into your owning here what would that. What would that piece of advice before early stage Dick Stevens nurses today. I would absolutely without question. Well you're armed directional. Whether it be. A small local people. But. You know our PR I would avoid the boot of kicker distributors in the market what you. Significant. Gas flows support me because. The bigger distributors that it will make it very difficult on your cash flow and very typical pre to make any money. So if you start smaller. Focus on direct you know it is slotting fees at stores like target and publix in the vote for commuting partners because they don't. You know there's no plot and you're selling them to Iraq and they hate you on time. And I think that we eat it very exciting to get a big order NKE. But it flat exciting when you get fifty cents on the dollar. I never written our collective yeah. That is. Not on unfortunately that a very. The vet a big problem. It is. Well this has been so great avenue we love hearing the stories of people who built just be a real world. Brands it's not just sort of theory it's not textbook which are out doing it. You're limited this has been incredibly valuable to us and I'm sure to our listeners. He did wonderful listing nick kind of a true entrepreneurial story and all the battles that you face so I just wanted to thank you for being on today. Yeah it's time for a break when we come back we're gonna do we drop in on the new brain university this time on a class. And the subject for today the other side the flip side of innovation so we all know that innovative things innovative products to all kinds of great things get people's attention. Also come with some challenges really cover that. We come back you're listening to the national in the. I mean those laugh and be in new man. Next. Watson now. Catch. It. I mean come mile an answer now. Welcome back to the natural underground. Every week and our final segment of the show. Then a dual dropping him I had just listen to drop in truck on a class from new brand university to our class this week ties perfectly with today's guest. Jeff from Dick Stevens jerky telmex. Just challenging if you had a chance to listen is yes this great product. And it's sort of bridges to different categories. Right in his case it's jerky like beef jerky. And then trail mix sounds pretty simple yet it's kind of innovators right now as we talked about in the interview. So that brings us to today's class. What are the five things marker should consider when marketing a brand who's calling card is an ovation. We apologize in advance we will be marking each one of our points below authoritative number count what's tested out. The war knife. Thacker had not planned to hell wasn't the kind of the pilots role now yup with a five considerations. No more innovation can make it easier raise money. But the challenges different. So on one hand investors love to think they're discovering something right everybody's a treasure and honor. Who they they got a little inside info on something that's emerging. The problem is innovative products also tend to mean there's not a lot of category segment or certainly brand data to validate that. That in that Wright is an opportunity right. Yeah there's no way to point to something and say see. And another is a more innovated you are it's harder point to something NC look at the info here the data rate this is tracking great way. So an added product could be higher reward but it also could be iris it's risk Elise went relative to raise some money and for investors under from an investors' point of view that's the way you look at who's. Cool little tool. Innovation tends to make it easier to get the attention of a retailer. Again just like investors folks that buy for retail chains like to be treasure hunters in fact. Trader Joe's is kind of its famous in the industry of consumer brands as as mean. They know their consumers walked in there looking for to treasure hunt make a discovery so therefore the very and that their. That that chain has to carry things that are different same with whole foods same with the sprouts places like that. So because of that they're always look keen are on the look out for something that's different. So imagine for a moment your buyer what would you rather see the fifteenth flavor of an established energy bar. Or something that's completely unique brand question right he may get their attention easier the moon which is kind of what reminds him with the energy bars how announcing you know energy bars and other becoming more of those savory flavors and instead of classic dean ample chocolate whenever absolutely that's an interest in one though because. As savory. Flavors rendered deuce. That was so different than the UC higher heel territory GAAP that it took the buyers I think a little while the believes the consumer would wind. You know a savory taste in energy barber boy they do really well. When you get enough wind when the Meyer when they're consumers no there there on the night of my death rattle. You. Innovation tends to make it easier to secure media attention which ultimately means free marketing. Rights so look. That it's the same discovery rule applies to media that applied to investors and applied to reach applies to retailers. As a writer and editor or producer a blogger they all want to. Use the product it's innovative as a way to look like they're on top of something that they're out in front of us so that's sort of the positive. And ultimately this can mean some important free marketing for your brand. Reich if you can get anywhere they say that a third party endorser and influence her movement and just when you're knee deep in the stuff all the time. It is more is more interesting than the brand telling you something they're sound and there's too because there's a validation to it right yeah I think consumers always trust the opinion of appear or are. Someone is an influence and like you said hit the issues to fall gotten hit it forty sought out and have trusted their opinion. Now part of the challenge on this though is timing we get this all the time brands for the entrepreneur owns a brand comes and says hey. My uncle is a producer. You know on The Today Show. I get the amity I'm gonna use this to talk about my product. Should I do it now more chain and you're like well if you do it now. There's nowhere for people the buyer all right I save that card discipline has required into you know like Alice strategy yeah to have to have the discipline to say. Let's wait till it's around enough that somebody that likes it that thinks its interest he might actually double the buyer product. So no matter what small business your building and are starting. Think about that don't. Don't use your one marketing card you might have rain early because otherwise it's it's interesting thing people heard about but they know what people are gonna work that hard. Don't mind your product in some are security delivered right to landlord for which can donate where we're already entering through the holiday season not to date this thing that we just sort of did with the Thanksgiving talk array. Black. My guess Black Friday it was a labor much higher Monday night everybody was over I was an upstart Conrad from London yeah. Common today and it czar like it and I just set an all kinds a records so if that's what you wanna do when you've created a pretty good set of outlets on line. Way to get your product and maybe you Tara trigger our early. Full. Innovation requires. A much greater investment in educating the consumer in this gonna sound a little bit like it contradicts the use of free market mean from. You know the influencers and the PR literal stunts are angles that you have. But the reality is. Because the brand and or product is unique the responsibility. For telling consumers how to use this stuff sort of falls on you. Right right so everyone falls in love with innovation. The retailer the investor you as the brand you're all excited you wanna tell people about it. The problem is you know you're sitting there studying the situation and the average consumer wandering down and I'll. In that cluttered category barely has any time to look any thing and Nate you know your nine and we are still entrepreneurs. And for and people managing brands you know the problem is you're not standing in the aisle next year product so whatever wacker a little amazing story a thousand claims all the stuff as a true. You can't. Net you're just there and that I forget being a world of read entrepreneurs say forget sometimes that people. Choose foods not the same way in my car a case and they did all this research into it and they know all the claims on stuff like now. But the the shape of the bottle to determine what kind of practice yeah I mean look when you when you go shopping has personally. It's so funny what I've by what some hungry. Or I don't yet know enough to go shopping when your country but it doesn't work the other way either because I'll I'll will often in our family. We'll go out to eat and then think we got you some Hershey shopping and and once your fall it's the most mundane. A much are you buy paper towels something else you think you need in his when doll yeah but if you're hungry you're you don't go to the prefer cornucopia all my boss is a delight Zack and this is a world of delight COU prepared food you're buying all this stuff. You can't do that you know what is the same thing here right. Is that you is the consumer doesn't know what this product is you're not in the I'll Wear them and to Ryan's point they're just sort reacting. So whatever impulse the thing my card receipt of focus group points would be accompanied at a small look like an energy shop bottle and went just assumed it was an energized. I don't know an hour and it even know it said it wasn't on there and now it and education's a acquired more than you would think absolutely. No you don't far. And this may be that trickiest ones and one that. Then if you're launching your big idea whatever it is you're building your brand that I think trips up more people because it's so fundamental. To along too long term successor Brent. And that is that innovation can create a big challenge relative to where in store to merchandiser product. Probably the toughest challenge right you have this idea totally new kind of product. But in what year are you gonna try and place in the store which means what buyer for that retail chain are you actually get a trying get in front of example was again with Dicks evens. If you've got this issue where does he go sell his product into the jerky section now or into the trail mix or in this some other hole sort of healthy snack area. I guess the whole foods near us has this beautiful. Combined snack area that lists everything from dried fruits and whole we all kinds of things BHD in the air to so part of that. Challenge for the brand and it's launching innovation is to work through it to ask consumers OK let me describe something to this were informal focus troops command. Here's what the product yet here's this product take a look at it and asked them a simple question. We're would you expect to find this in the store them because he knew all the amortized in the world but if people don't know where to find it to you to be lost right brain you an example another one friend of ours on the really cool brand called pros. It's this wonderful he steep protein rich for Tia chip. My tastes like a great chip a loaded with protein. So on one hand he could shelve in that salty snack aisle with food should taste good and they need those in the good being in all these wonderful product is but. Sometimes those are people that are a little bit more carb. You know except dean than somebody who wants a protein rich product beret so does he going to sports nutrition and as a go in next energy bars there's up. Protein powders that's all part of the challenge so it ultimately where is he belong because. Yeah you know it's already hard to make a product successful. If you don't. Figure out where the consumers looking for it you're gonna have a long day. And along here yeah cool. Are those we hope those five points or something that you can think about if you've got questions or your interest did in. More of this kind of information please send us an email info. And you bring university. Dot com. That was our show for today thank you again to Jeff of Dick Stephens cuddled on our show. In look for those and nineteen. How vintage Thanksgiving recipes on our FaceBook page on the natural underground you grow up there that's new I low there they're pretty to look at more interest in and that's fine that are born. All right we'll see you next week thanks for joining us on the natural underground. Tell him. Mean yes.